Are you using a traffic program ?jorgehmosteiro wrote:No, just the heavies planes
SOS-my AI heavies keep going missed
- jorgehmosteiro
- Posts: 31
Heavy's going missed
Heavy's landing on the water before the runway
have been on going issues since FS9 was released even for the default FS9/FSX TNCM airport.
So what are some of the causes.
TNCM is one of the very few airports in the database that the primary runway (09) does not have a precision approach code written in XML. The first clue that the Heavy's may have a problem is when the Controller says "you are cleared for the visual"
The reason why is because RWY 09 does not have a ILS with Localizer and Glideslope. The Heavy type AI Aircraft need a hard floor to lock to that does not exsit at TNCM. Also, the very important Final Approach Fix (FAF) waypoint is not coded. Both the Tower to clear the landing and AI Planes to seek the correct Glidepath are factored from this waypoint which starts the descent profile.
What that means is all aircraft are flying the approach to RWY 09 as per a hardcode in the dll file and not a XML code that would normally nest inside the approach record file.
When the weather is above 3 mile visibility at TNCM all AI Planes think they are VFR (approach) even though the FP is IFR. On the approach they do not have a hard floor to seek/lock to and are using the default VFR hardfloor. This is fine for the smaller aircraft but the heavier the AI Plane becomes the FD's must also be hardend which in most cases are not.
Some of the work arounds that a User can try
1. Use the default B747-400 FS9/FSX plane and see if it is more stable which helps in understanding what to do next.
2. Find a different model AI Plane from another source and see if it locks to the 2000 ft VFR hard floor without falling through.
3. Set all FP altitudes going to TNCM to less then FL340 preferably 310 or 320.
The ATC boundry for TNCM which we call the Active AI Visual Zone has a very small radius from the ARP and if a AI Plane comes into the AI Visual Zone to high it causes a geardown issue at high altitudes, planes going missed and planes descending at a high rate of FPM which cause them to fall through the hard floor and not recover, etc.
4. Set the weather visibility to less then 3 miles as a test. This will help eliminate if the problem is actually the AI PLane model/air/cfg or if the FP enroute altitude is set to high.
When you set the weather to less then 3 miles you are now forcing the ATC engine to use the VORDME coded approach which has a written XML code. The only problem with that AI Approach code is the hard floor is set at 1500 ft and some AI Heavy model planes cannot hold that altitude when the gear and flaps deploy. This also causes the AI Heavy to loose it's ability to maintain approach altitude which in turn loose a proper Glidepath to hard coded touch down point of the runway.
These are some of things you can try first and if everyone starts to see more stability on the approach then that would be great.
Heavy's landing on the water before the runway
have been on going issues since FS9 was released even for the default FS9/FSX TNCM airport.
So what are some of the causes.
TNCM is one of the very few airports in the database that the primary runway (09) does not have a precision approach code written in XML. The first clue that the Heavy's may have a problem is when the Controller says "you are cleared for the visual"
The reason why is because RWY 09 does not have a ILS with Localizer and Glideslope. The Heavy type AI Aircraft need a hard floor to lock to that does not exsit at TNCM. Also, the very important Final Approach Fix (FAF) waypoint is not coded. Both the Tower to clear the landing and AI Planes to seek the correct Glidepath are factored from this waypoint which starts the descent profile.
What that means is all aircraft are flying the approach to RWY 09 as per a hardcode in the dll file and not a XML code that would normally nest inside the approach record file.
When the weather is above 3 mile visibility at TNCM all AI Planes think they are VFR (approach) even though the FP is IFR. On the approach they do not have a hard floor to seek/lock to and are using the default VFR hardfloor. This is fine for the smaller aircraft but the heavier the AI Plane becomes the FD's must also be hardend which in most cases are not.
Some of the work arounds that a User can try
1. Use the default B747-400 FS9/FSX plane and see if it is more stable which helps in understanding what to do next.
2. Find a different model AI Plane from another source and see if it locks to the 2000 ft VFR hard floor without falling through.
3. Set all FP altitudes going to TNCM to less then FL340 preferably 310 or 320.
The ATC boundry for TNCM which we call the Active AI Visual Zone has a very small radius from the ARP and if a AI Plane comes into the AI Visual Zone to high it causes a geardown issue at high altitudes, planes going missed and planes descending at a high rate of FPM which cause them to fall through the hard floor and not recover, etc.
4. Set the weather visibility to less then 3 miles as a test. This will help eliminate if the problem is actually the AI PLane model/air/cfg or if the FP enroute altitude is set to high.
When you set the weather to less then 3 miles you are now forcing the ATC engine to use the VORDME coded approach which has a written XML code. The only problem with that AI Approach code is the hard floor is set at 1500 ft and some AI Heavy model planes cannot hold that altitude when the gear and flaps deploy. This also causes the AI Heavy to loose it's ability to maintain approach altitude which in turn loose a proper Glidepath to hard coded touch down point of the runway.
These are some of things you can try first and if everyone starts to see more stability on the approach then that would be great.
Thank you very much Mr. Vile for your input.jvile wrote:Heavy's going missed
Heavy's landing on the water before the runway
have been on going issues since FS9 was released even for the default FS9/FSX TNCM airport....
...These are some of things you can try first and if everyone starts to see more stability on the approach then that would be great.
I understand then, that adding an ILS with Afacd program will not have much effect on trying to solve the problem. Otherwise it would have been too easy...
MD
Thanks Big Al. I've heard rumors that AiSmooth isn't failsafe. I am hestitating stillbig_al wrote:also you can try using a program called ai-smooth. it can slow down the ai on approach to correct approach speeds, making it easier for the AI to land, otherwise they fly down like a rocketship from their spawned places without slowing down and either go missed or crash
Very Good Question M.D. MironI understand then, that adding an ILS with Afacd program will not have much effect on trying to solve the problem.
One of the most if not the most misunderstood options when using the AFCAD program (other then the one that closes runways) is the addition of a ILS.
A ILS added with AFCAD does nothing more then activate the User Airplanes radio Panel so a freq can be selected and a ILS Localizer/GP/DME can be flown. ATC has never understood a added ILS to a runway and continues to call it a visual runway and closes the runway if weather falls below 3 mile visibility (see below).
ATC, the ATC Engine, dll files, Visual Zones, etc. cannot understand a ILS exsit until a cooresponding Approach code as per ARINC 424 is written in XML and added to the rest of the entire Jeppesen Plates that are embedded in the Airport Records of FS9/FSX based on a back time (cutoff date).
AI Planes have never flown a ILS that the User Plane flys because the Runway properties own the ILS for the User Plane and the ARINC coded approaches own the AI Planes approach for the ILS, GPS, RNAV, LDA, VORDME, VOR, NDBDME and NDB in that order.
When weather falls below 3 miles visibility another set of approach rules are now used by the ATC system. Many many many airports in the database do not have a ILS but yet this does not cancel AI Traffic into a Airport that is IMC because of the pecking order (priority list) of the approaches I listed above.
We can only imagine how many AI Planes would be left out to just disappear if a airport relied solely on a ILS when the weather causes a airport to become IMC.
TNCM/TFFJ is a good example that if weather fell below 3 miles and there is no ILS what does AI or the USer do now. The pecking order above says ATC starts looking down through the approach records until it finds a precision/non-precision approach including a simple NDB approach if that is all that exsit.
AI Planes fly under one set of rules and those rules are divided based on weather and type coded approach. USer Plane flys on another set of rules and this is also some of the reasons that after 4 years of ATC, Flight Simmers still have misunderstandings of how the rules are applied.
Of course there are tricks or what FS would call elusions because MS has coded many into the Sim. I use some of the MS elusions the same as 3rd party utilities such as AISmooth which uses a slew method embedded in the trafficdatabase.
Thank you once again Mr. Vile. Perfectly understood. I will give then AISmooth a try.jvile wrote:
One of the most if not the most misunderstood options when using the AFCAD program ...
... Of course there are tricks or what FS would call elusions because MS has coded many into the Sim. I use some of the MS elusions the same as 3rd party utilities such as AISmooth which uses a slew method embedded in the trafficdatabase.
Yours,
MD