ATIS' listing of runways!
- Jean-Jacques
- Posts: 5
ATIS' listing of runways!
Hi, Great scenery and works well on my FSX system. However, here's an issue I'm faced with concerning available runways according to ATIS. Here's an example taken this morning:
"Dorval airport information Oscar, 1255 zulu, Wind 270 at 6. Visibility: 20, Sky condition: no clouds below 20,000. Temperature: -18. Dewpoint: -24. Altimeter 3050. Visual runway 28, Visual runway 27, Visual runway 26, Visual runway 25, Visual runway 24, Visual runway 23, ILS runway 24R and ILS runway 24L in use. Landing and departing runway 28, runway 27, runway 26, runway 25, runway 24, runway 23, runway 24R and runway 24L in use. VFR aircraft say direction of flight. All aircraft read back hold short instructions. Advise controller on initial contact you have Quebec."
Any thoughts on what the issue is? I've made several efforts to find any duplicate AFCADs and couldn't find any, not even this scenery's AFCAD or its equivalent.
Many thanks for helping with this.
Jean-Jacques
"Dorval airport information Oscar, 1255 zulu, Wind 270 at 6. Visibility: 20, Sky condition: no clouds below 20,000. Temperature: -18. Dewpoint: -24. Altimeter 3050. Visual runway 28, Visual runway 27, Visual runway 26, Visual runway 25, Visual runway 24, Visual runway 23, ILS runway 24R and ILS runway 24L in use. Landing and departing runway 28, runway 27, runway 26, runway 25, runway 24, runway 23, runway 24R and runway 24L in use. VFR aircraft say direction of flight. All aircraft read back hold short instructions. Advise controller on initial contact you have Quebec."
Any thoughts on what the issue is? I've made several efforts to find any duplicate AFCADs and couldn't find any, not even this scenery's AFCAD or its equivalent.
Many thanks for helping with this.
Jean-Jacques
- george[flytampa]
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3871
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
I didn't work on the AFCAD but I think the reason for it is trickery used to get the AI to use all three runways simultaneously.
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
That is a normal behavior, because the Runways are crosswinded.
I hope this is not a big matter.
I hope this is not a big matter.
- Jean-Jacques
- Posts: 5
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
George and Hero93,
Thanks for your input but CYUL has only the following runways: ILS 24R, ILS 24L, ILS 6L, ILS 6R, ILS 10 and 28 (non ILS). So what causes these non existing runways to be listed i.e., 27, 26, 25 and 23 ? That was the point of my post!
Jean-Jacques
Thanks for your input but CYUL has only the following runways: ILS 24R, ILS 24L, ILS 6L, ILS 6R, ILS 10 and 28 (non ILS). So what causes these non existing runways to be listed i.e., 27, 26, 25 and 23 ? That was the point of my post!
Jean-Jacques
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
The multiple non-existent runways is usually caused by the x-wind technique within the AFCAD to get all runways active in FSX & fs9. They are more dummy rwys and do not exist.
One of the drawbacks of this is the long listing of the non-existent runways in the ATIS message......
One of the drawbacks of this is the long listing of the non-existent runways in the ATIS message......
- Jean-Jacques
- Posts: 5
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
Thank you Flukey and thanks again George and hero93. I understand what you're saying about the x-wind technique to cause AI to use all three runways simultaneously. However, I believe the feature should be optional as it is with replacement AFCADs developed and offered as freeware by talented flightsimmers.
And here's my rationale. Allowing AI to use all runways can cause third-party ATC programs to malfunction when such programs rely on FSX's AI movement to assign departing and arrival runways. In the case of Pro-ATC/X, the user has two options available. First, allow the ATC program to select runways in accordance with wind direction and second, force the ATC program to select runways in accordance with FSX's selection. I use the second option because the first one has proven to allow coming to face-to-face with departing or arriving aircraft or having AI traffic crossing the assigned runway. This is apparently due to FSX's and Pro-ATC/X's differing methods of selecting the most appropriate departing or arrival runways. The issue has been the subject of much discussion lately on Pro-ATC/X's forum. I believe that allowing AI to use all runways will not help matters.
I therefore ask the following: can the cross-wind feature be made optional and if not, how can I remove this feature from your CYUL scenery file?
Many thanks,
Jean-Jacques
And here's my rationale. Allowing AI to use all runways can cause third-party ATC programs to malfunction when such programs rely on FSX's AI movement to assign departing and arrival runways. In the case of Pro-ATC/X, the user has two options available. First, allow the ATC program to select runways in accordance with wind direction and second, force the ATC program to select runways in accordance with FSX's selection. I use the second option because the first one has proven to allow coming to face-to-face with departing or arriving aircraft or having AI traffic crossing the assigned runway. This is apparently due to FSX's and Pro-ATC/X's differing methods of selecting the most appropriate departing or arrival runways. The issue has been the subject of much discussion lately on Pro-ATC/X's forum. I believe that allowing AI to use all runways will not help matters.
I therefore ask the following: can the cross-wind feature be made optional and if not, how can I remove this feature from your CYUL scenery file?
Many thanks,
Jean-Jacques
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
I'm sure you can get a seperate AFCAD, but I think this won't help you.
Your Problem sounds like it is related to the Weather Engine.
When you use Active Sky, try with selecting: "Force Destination weather in XX nm radius. " (I don't recall the option perfectly)
//Edit: Sry, I missed that you don't use the weather option, but maybe it helps you either.
Because the Crosswind Method just parallelizes RWY 24L/R and 28 but does not make all Runway directions possible at a time. So you should not fly against the traffic.
But maybe you are right and it is a missbehavior of ProATC, so I try to make you a "simple" AFCAD.
Your Problem sounds like it is related to the Weather Engine.
When you use Active Sky, try with selecting: "Force Destination weather in XX nm radius. " (I don't recall the option perfectly)
//Edit: Sry, I missed that you don't use the weather option, but maybe it helps you either.
Because the Crosswind Method just parallelizes RWY 24L/R and 28 but does not make all Runway directions possible at a time. So you should not fly against the traffic.
But maybe you are right and it is a missbehavior of ProATC, so I try to make you a "simple" AFCAD.
- Jean-Jacques
- Posts: 5
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
" . . . Because the Crosswind Method just parallelizes RWY 24L/R and 28 but does not make all Runway directions possible at a time. So you should not fly against the traffic. . . ."
That being the case, then there shouldn't be any issue.
". . . But maybe you are right and it is a missbehavior of ProATC, so I try to make you a "simple" AFCAD.
It may very well be a missbehavior of the ATC program but based on the information offered in the various forum discussions, the problem seems to also be related to FSX's behavior in relation to the selection of runways. I've witnessed Pro-ATC/X selecting what I considered appropriate runways while FSX had chosen different runways. I did use Radar Contact for several years before switching to Pro-ATC/X and did occasionally encounter the same issue. A 'simple' AFCAD would be much appreciated if possible..
In the weather engine department, I use Opus which is now being recognized by Pro-ATC/X as a weather information source. So things are improving.
Many thanks,
Jean-Jacques
That being the case, then there shouldn't be any issue.
". . . But maybe you are right and it is a missbehavior of ProATC, so I try to make you a "simple" AFCAD.
It may very well be a missbehavior of the ATC program but based on the information offered in the various forum discussions, the problem seems to also be related to FSX's behavior in relation to the selection of runways. I've witnessed Pro-ATC/X selecting what I considered appropriate runways while FSX had chosen different runways. I did use Radar Contact for several years before switching to Pro-ATC/X and did occasionally encounter the same issue. A 'simple' AFCAD would be much appreciated if possible..
In the weather engine department, I use Opus which is now being recognized by Pro-ATC/X as a weather information source. So things are improving.
Many thanks,
Jean-Jacques
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
Here you go:
AFCAD without X-Wind.
But I can't recommend to use it.
It should produce more problems then it may solves.
The root of the missbehaviour is either the Weather Engine or the ATC-Program...
AFCAD without X-Wind.
But I can't recommend to use it.
It should produce more problems then it may solves.
The root of the missbehaviour is either the Weather Engine or the ATC-Program...
- Jean-Jacques
- Posts: 5
Re: ATIS' listing of runways!
Thank you very much for the AFCAD file. First impression is that it works fine and only longer-term usage will confirm that. It does however eliminate the long and annoying ATIS reports! Additional feedback will be provided here if required.
Regards,
Jean-Jacques
Regards,
Jean-Jacques