Loving the scenery BTW Martin, it is simply amazing
AI landing RW 27 TNCM
AI landing RW 27 TNCM
They also fly through the hill (i read about TFFJ having this problem). This is normal too?
Loving the scenery BTW Martin, it is simply amazing
Loving the scenery BTW Martin, it is simply amazing
- martin[flytampa]
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5290
I will let Jim explain this in detail once he logs back on. He coded a custom Approach for TFFJ that I am sure is "as good as it gets". The rest is up to each AI aircraft based on its Flight Dynamics (aircraft.cfg). Basically AI with carefully "coded" CFGs will fare well, AI with poor CFGs or just copy/pasted default Cessna CFGs will not fare so well.
It is possible to edit and tweak these CFGs for each AI so they all clear the hill and land perfectly at Barts, however I do not know all the settings involved.
It is possible to edit and tweak these CFGs for each AI so they all clear the hill and land perfectly at Barts, however I do not know all the settings involved.
Last edited by martin[flytampa] on Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
- jorgehmosteiro
- Posts: 31
Hi Jorge,jorgehmosteiro wrote:Hi Miron, could you upload the aircrafts and flight plans for TFFJ traffic?
Regards
Jorge
I'm still in the office and have 5 appointments ahead of me. Please go
to avsim and search for "Winair" (without the brackets
). You'llget zem all.
If you still encounter problems, I'm here.
MD
I have another question in relation to this: I have the St.Maarten package installed for 2 days now and tried it out for about 6-7 hrs, but my AI traffic ALWAYS lands on RWY 27 (never on 09), and also 27 is always the active runway, no matter what wind direction I choose. Is this normal? I mean definetly not in real life where they usually land on 09, right? How can I activate the VOR/DME Approach for RWY 09?
legacy
One of the reasons that AI will use the recip of RWY 09 is that the winds are set for that runway.
When you startup FS9 it uses the wind setting from your default startup flight. When you arrive at TNCM that wind setting is still in the memory of FS.
Changing the wind setting is not enough and you must reload FS for any new wind setting to take effect.
The way to test this is Go To TNCM. Now set the winds for runway 09 (winds from the EAST at 090). That by itself will not set the winds to 090 so open the drop down menu and change the heading of your aircraft in the map mode by one degree. This will force FS to reload (black Bar moving left to right) and change the wind settings so AI will spawn in the active zone and now be vectored by ATC for RWY 09.
Also listen to ATIS which will tell you which runway is the active based on the wind setting. Be sure the winds have a kt value. I use 8 kts as a standard when testing runways.
If this fails then you could possibly have a second AFCAD TNCM embedded somewhere in your FS9 folders that is confusing the active runway.
One of the reasons that AI will use the recip of RWY 09 is that the winds are set for that runway.
When you startup FS9 it uses the wind setting from your default startup flight. When you arrive at TNCM that wind setting is still in the memory of FS.
Changing the wind setting is not enough and you must reload FS for any new wind setting to take effect.
The way to test this is Go To TNCM. Now set the winds for runway 09 (winds from the EAST at 090). That by itself will not set the winds to 090 so open the drop down menu and change the heading of your aircraft in the map mode by one degree. This will force FS to reload (black Bar moving left to right) and change the wind settings so AI will spawn in the active zone and now be vectored by ATC for RWY 09.
Also listen to ATIS which will tell you which runway is the active based on the wind setting. Be sure the winds have a kt value. I use 8 kts as a standard when testing runways.
If this fails then you could possibly have a second AFCAD TNCM embedded somewhere in your FS9 folders that is confusing the active runway.
thanks for your reply, this could be the answer.
In fact I didnt know that I have to restart the flight (or even the main FS???) in order to get a change of the wind settings. I usually fly with the "real world weather updated every 15 mins" setting and thought this would change also the wind (and the active runway)...
Of course I know that I have to listen to ATIS to get the RWY Info, but in my case, the runway just didnt change...
I also thought about maybe having an old AFCAD File from my previous installed freeware TNCM Scenery still active, I will check that again, this really could be the answer.
Many thanks for your help, now I know that it is not normal, that they always land on 27.
In fact I didnt know that I have to restart the flight (or even the main FS???) in order to get a change of the wind settings. I usually fly with the "real world weather updated every 15 mins" setting and thought this would change also the wind (and the active runway)...
Of course I know that I have to listen to ATIS to get the RWY Info, but in my case, the runway just didnt change...
I also thought about maybe having an old AFCAD File from my previous installed freeware TNCM Scenery still active, I will check that again, this really could be the answer.
Many thanks for your help, now I know that it is not normal, that they always land on 27.
altstiff
Adding to what Martin has already posted.
Nothing was done (yet) with the approaches for TNCM. This includes both versions for FS9 and FSX. I am monitoring the forum and gathering information based on User's to see if there is a need to harden both RWY09 and 27 for the AI Aircraft. Read the following post
viewtopic.php?t=2204
However, a lot of work was put into the approaches for St. Barts (TFFJ) using the FS2004 (FS9) version of FlyTampa TNCM.
If you open the GPS Receiver it will show you all the available approaches that have been added to the database for St. Barts based on current approach Charts. Of course these are for the User and ATC will vector you to any of these approaches. The most challanging one is the left downwind to RWY 28 at 800 ft as per the Charts (Pain De Sucre).
AI Traffic approaches have also been written for St.Barts. If you make RWY 28 the active then all AI Planes fly the ILE FREGATE approach. This is a curved approach that brings the AI Planes over the bay waters with a right 45 degree turn to short final. All AI Planes tested execute this approach with no problems.
The Approaches written for RWY 10 are a little more complex for the AI Traffic because of the hill that they have to clear.
The very first issue is finding out which AI Planes exhibit the best air/cfg characteristics. The objective is to hold the AI Planes at a high altitude (1200 FT) over Pain De Sucre and then drop them like a rock based on FPM descent rates. Many AI Planes based on Model types and designer tweaks don't have the capabilities or the Flight Dynamics (FD's) for a true short field landing.
At this point I gather up as many Island hopper AI as I can find on the web and start testing.
Like Martin said, if a designer just copied and pasted default Cessna FD's for his Model AI Plane then that is not a good standard to work with. What I found and tested was this. The best AI Plane that clears the hill is the
Dornier 228-100/200 designed by Fernando Martinez which has a true set of FD's for short field airports at Sea Level (AVSIM/FlightSim.com)
The second and third best AI Planes to clear the hill are the
deHavilland DHC-6
Britten-Norman BN-2 A/B Islander
Both these models are by Henry Tomkiewicz and can be found on HTAImodels.com and AVSIM.com
Once the approach code is written for the best models available then any other model that can't clear the hill is a designer problem. There is no standard for FD's amoung designers and it is up to the User to decide what works best and then possibly go back to the designer and ask for better FD's.
hope this helps
Adding to what Martin has already posted.
Nothing was done (yet) with the approaches for TNCM. This includes both versions for FS9 and FSX. I am monitoring the forum and gathering information based on User's to see if there is a need to harden both RWY09 and 27 for the AI Aircraft. Read the following post
viewtopic.php?t=2204
However, a lot of work was put into the approaches for St. Barts (TFFJ) using the FS2004 (FS9) version of FlyTampa TNCM.
If you open the GPS Receiver it will show you all the available approaches that have been added to the database for St. Barts based on current approach Charts. Of course these are for the User and ATC will vector you to any of these approaches. The most challanging one is the left downwind to RWY 28 at 800 ft as per the Charts (Pain De Sucre).
AI Traffic approaches have also been written for St.Barts. If you make RWY 28 the active then all AI Planes fly the ILE FREGATE approach. This is a curved approach that brings the AI Planes over the bay waters with a right 45 degree turn to short final. All AI Planes tested execute this approach with no problems.
The Approaches written for RWY 10 are a little more complex for the AI Traffic because of the hill that they have to clear.
The very first issue is finding out which AI Planes exhibit the best air/cfg characteristics. The objective is to hold the AI Planes at a high altitude (1200 FT) over Pain De Sucre and then drop them like a rock based on FPM descent rates. Many AI Planes based on Model types and designer tweaks don't have the capabilities or the Flight Dynamics (FD's) for a true short field landing.
At this point I gather up as many Island hopper AI as I can find on the web and start testing.
Like Martin said, if a designer just copied and pasted default Cessna FD's for his Model AI Plane then that is not a good standard to work with. What I found and tested was this. The best AI Plane that clears the hill is the
Dornier 228-100/200 designed by Fernando Martinez which has a true set of FD's for short field airports at Sea Level (AVSIM/FlightSim.com)
The second and third best AI Planes to clear the hill are the
deHavilland DHC-6
Britten-Norman BN-2 A/B Islander
Both these models are by Henry Tomkiewicz and can be found on HTAImodels.com and AVSIM.com
Once the approach code is written for the best models available then any other model that can't clear the hill is a designer problem. There is no standard for FD's amoung designers and it is up to the User to decide what works best and then possibly go back to the designer and ask for better FD's.
hope this helps
legacyHow can I activate the VOR/DME Approach for RWY 09?
During the Approach phase you the User have the option to request from the ATC controller the VORDME RWY09 approach if winds are from the East.
By default ATC always vectors the User to fly the default vectors to final (30 degree offset) which in the case of TNCM is a hard coded approach based on VMC weather (severe clear) conditions.
If you want the AI Traffic to be told to fly the VORDME approach to TNCM by ATC then the weather must be set to less then 3 mile visibility (IMC airport conditions). This is the first approach in the pecking order of the ARINC 424 data embedded in FS9 because a ILS does not exsit.
Do Not confuse a IFR FP with a IMC weather condition in FS9/FSX. A IFR FP in FS9/FSX will allow a Plane to execute the approach regardless if it is a precision or non-precision type.
A VFR FP can only execute the approach if the weather is VMC (more then 3 mile visibilty). If you get stuck VFR on top then you either have too fly to a airport that is VMC or file a in flight IFR FP so ATC will vector you for the VORDME approach at TNCM.
jvile,
thanks again for your help.
As I currently work as a flight dispatcher for an airline in europe, I always try to get my flight sim sessions as real as it gets. As you mentioned, RWY 27 is for VMC Conditions only. Jeppesen Chart says: "Landing Rwy 27 at night prohibited, VMC by day" Also, the VOR/DME Rwy 09 Approach seems to me the usual one for all incoming comercial traffic...? So during my first approach into FlyTampa TNCM I was suprised to get a VFR App Clearance for RWY 27 from (FS) ATC and so I requested a VOR/DME Rwy 27 App which the ATC accepted and on final I noticed another GA Acft taking off RWY 27 right towards me, and I had a missed approach...
So I wondered if AI Traffic always would operate on RWY 27 only...
but thanks to your kind help and explanation I now know better.
thanks again for your help.
As I currently work as a flight dispatcher for an airline in europe, I always try to get my flight sim sessions as real as it gets. As you mentioned, RWY 27 is for VMC Conditions only. Jeppesen Chart says: "Landing Rwy 27 at night prohibited, VMC by day" Also, the VOR/DME Rwy 09 Approach seems to me the usual one for all incoming comercial traffic...? So during my first approach into FlyTampa TNCM I was suprised to get a VFR App Clearance for RWY 27 from (FS) ATC and so I requested a VOR/DME Rwy 27 App which the ATC accepted and on final I noticed another GA Acft taking off RWY 27 right towards me, and I had a missed approach...
So I wondered if AI Traffic always would operate on RWY 27 only...
but thanks to your kind help and explanation I now know better.