Microsoft Flight Sim X Next Gen

dandude22 · Post by **dandude22** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:20 pm

Dimon wrote:Have to agree about FSX and Vista.

Too bad that Vista will be released after FSX. I think MS marketing department made wrong decision in this respect. First of all, many potential buyers will hold off their credit cards till Vista arrives (which in turn hurt FSX initial sales). Secondly, MS Customer support will be slammed when people begins to transfer FSX to Vista.

I really hope that MS will reconsider their decision, even though we have to wait till Spring 2006.

Spring 2006 is before Christmas 2006 (when FSX is aimed to come out). Am I missing something obvious again?

six · Post by **six** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:36 pm

skydvdan wrote:
Dimon wrote:Have to agree about FSX and Vista.

I think MS marketing department made wrong decision in this respect. First of all, many potential buyers will hold off their credit cards till Vista arrives (which in turn hurt FSX initial sales). Secondly, MS Customer support will be slammed when people begins to transfer FSX to Vista.
I don't think it was a mistake at all if that is how it happens. I personally will get FSX as soon as it's available. Then I, like most will see how it runs on my current system. Then if I want more out of it I have the option to upgrade to Vista. What some people aren't thinking about is that Vista will ship with DX10. As of right now there are no DX10 videocards available. So all of you that are buying new systems with $800 worth of Dual SLI videocards are wasting your cash. Even the 7800GTX is still only a DX9 videocard. So if you're a hardcore simmer like myself, I'd hold off on a new system for now because the hardware you'll need isn't available just yet.

Dan is right and wrong: according to the FSX developer blogs, VISTA will ship with DX9 AND DX10 installed so your DX9 cards will work. Your are right in that a $4500 system with four 7800GTX SLIs installed will be antiquated as glass Coke bottles by Christmas, I mean Coke bottles man!!!! No DX10 cards on the market at ALL and there won't for at least a couple months after Christmas, maybe even April.

AHHHHH, the smell of cash burning a whole in some people's pocket is a euphoric sent, eh?

dandude22 · Post by **dandude22** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:20 pm

six wrote:
skydvdan wrote:
Dimon wrote:Have to agree about FSX and Vista.

I think MS marketing department made wrong decision in this respect. First of all, many potential buyers will hold off their credit cards till Vista arrives (which in turn hurt FSX initial sales). Secondly, MS Customer support will be slammed when people begins to transfer FSX to Vista.
I don't think it was a mistake at all if that is how it happens. I personally will get FSX as soon as it's available. Then I, like most will see how it runs on my current system. Then if I want more out of it I have the option to upgrade to Vista. What some people aren't thinking about is that Vista will ship with DX10. As of right now there are no DX10 videocards available. So all of you that are buying new systems with $800 worth of Dual SLI videocards are wasting your cash. Even the 7800GTX is still only a DX9 videocard. So if you're a hardcore simmer like myself, I'd hold off on a new system for now because the hardware you'll need isn't available just yet.
Dan is right and wrong: according to the FSX developer blogs, VISTA will ship with DX9 AND DX10 installed so your DX9 cards will work. Your are right in that a $4500 system with four 7800GTX SLIs installed will be antiquated as glass Coke bottles by Christmas, I mean Coke bottles man!!!! No DX10 cards on the market at ALL and there won't for at least a couple months after Christmas, maybe even April.

AHHHHH, the smell of cash burning a whole in some people's pocket is a euphoric sent, eh?

Wonderful. I can't upgrade my system because I would have to buy a mobo with PCI Express. But it would already be obsolete by the time Vista comes out. Thanks Bill!

skydvdan · Post by **skydvdan** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:30 pm

six wrote:
skydvdan wrote:
Dimon wrote:Have to agree about FSX and Vista.

I think MS marketing department made wrong decision in this respect. First of all, many potential buyers will hold off their credit cards till Vista arrives (which in turn hurt FSX initial sales). Secondly, MS Customer support will be slammed when people begins to transfer FSX to Vista.
I don't think it was a mistake at all if that is how it happens. I personally will get FSX as soon as it's available. Then I, like most will see how it runs on my current system. Then if I want more out of it I have the option to upgrade to Vista. What some people aren't thinking about is that Vista will ship with DX10. As of right now there are no DX10 videocards available. So all of you that are buying new systems with $800 worth of Dual SLI videocards are wasting your cash. Even the 7800GTX is still only a DX9 videocard. So if you're a hardcore simmer like myself, I'd hold off on a new system for now because the hardware you'll need isn't available just yet.
Dan is right and wrong: according to the FSX developer blogs, VISTA will ship with DX9 AND DX10 installed so your DX9 cards will work. Your are right in that a $4500 system with four 7800GTX SLIs installed will be antiquated as glass Coke bottles by Christmas, I mean Coke bottles man!!!! No DX10 cards on the market at ALL and there won't for at least a couple months after Christmas, maybe even April.

AHHHHH, the smell of cash burning a whole in some people's pocket is a euphoric sent, eh?

I think you misunderstood me. My post was a bit ambiguous. Yes it will run using DX9 and a DX9 videocard but you won't be able to get the advanced features to work. That's what I meant. Pixel shaders 4.0 and such. So save your cash!!!

Longbow · Post by **Longbow** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:59 pm

yeh.. sounds like a good idea. Like i bought a brand new comp system but with a 128mb card because im saving up for when 512mb cards will be at a reasonable price. (although i kinda sometime regret this decision

)

While we're on the topic of v-cards.. whats the the difference between a PCI-E, AGP, etc, card?

paavo · Post by **paavo** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:09 pm

Longbow wrote:yeh.. sounds like a good idea. Like i bought a brand new comp system but with a 128mb card because im saving up for when 512mb cards will be at a reasonable price. (although i kinda sometime regret this decision )

While we're on the topic of v-cards.. whats the the difference between a PCI-E, AGP, etc, card?

PCI-E has a much higher tranfer rate than AGP, SLI can use two PCI-E video cards, here is good site on SLI http://www.slizone.com/page/home.html

Longbow · Post by **Longbow** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:17 am

ahh.. good. glad i have the PCI-E. Now all I need is a good card.

thanks for the link

paavo · Post by **paavo** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:26 am

Longbow wrote:ahh.. good. glad i have the PCI-E. Now all I need is a good card.

thanks for the link

I'm still on an AGP mobo. I put my money into a cpu upgrade instead of going to SLI, I think I'll wait until DX10 cards are out before I put that much cash into my next upgrade. A new mobo and 2 video cards is not going to be a cheap upgrade.

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:42 am

You are right about the price of the latest vid cards. I am almost ready to get a new box myself, mine is so far behind right now. The nVidea 7800 GTX 512 goes for around $1000, and you can't find them just anywhere, 256MB you can, and i beleive they go for around $450 to $600. Shop around for those. Still a lot of money, but

, one has to do what one has to do. My machine is getting so bogged down I have to do something.

Dimon · Post by **Dimon** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:03 am

MSFS is neither Duke Nukem nor Quake. It doesn't need powerful GPU. It runs pretty good with good-old AGP. So, I think investments in in graphic cards for Fs is waste of money (unless you're big fan of wet runways - the feauture that will not be supported by addon scenery developers for year or two after FSX hit the shelves) .CPU + RAM: that's what we need for FS. Fortunately, Intel slowed down its "GHZ Race" and prices are getting down.

And guys, $5000 PC is a myth. Just don't buy in either Best Buy or Circuit City.

paavo · Post by **paavo** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:13 am

Edge wrote:You are right about the price of the latest vid cards. I am almost ready to get a new box myself, mine is so far behind right now. The nVidea 7800 GTX 512 goes for around $1000, and you can't find them just anywhere, 256MB you can, and i beleive they go for around $450 to $600. Shop around for those. Still a lot of money, but , one has to do what one has to do. My machine is getting so bogged down I have to do something.

The 7800 nividias are down around $300, but 2 of those and a mobo, still a pricy upgrade. True that FS9 doesn't need that, but F.E.A.R. would look and run sweet on it.

paavo · Post by **paavo** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:19 am

Dimon wrote:MSFS is neither Duke Nukem nor Quake. It doesn't need powerful GPU. It runs pretty good with good-old AGP. So, I think investments in in graphic cards for Fs is waste of money (unless you're big fan of wet runways - the feauture that will not be supported by addon scenery developers for year or two after FSX hit the shelves) .CPU + RAM: that's what we need for FS. Fortunately, Intel slowed down its "GHZ Race" and prices are getting down.

And guys, $5000 PC is a myth. Just don't buy in either Best Buy or Circuit City.

A $5000 PC from Falcon NW would be worth the money.

Longbow · Post by **Longbow** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:51 am

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... p?CatId=28

these guys have awsome deals on all PC hardware. Once they had a 512mb card for 150 dollars

six · Post by **six** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:56 pm

Dimon wrote:MSFS is neither Duke Nukem nor Quake. It doesn't need powerful GPU. It runs pretty good with good-old AGP. So, I think investments in in graphic cards for Fs is waste of money (unless you're big fan of wet runways - the feauture that will not be supported by addon scenery developers for year or two after FSX hit the shelves) .CPU + RAM: that's what we need for FS. Fortunately, Intel slowed down its "GHZ Race" and prices are getting down.

And guys, $5000 PC is a myth. Just don't buy in either Best Buy or Circuit City.

Your very right, FS isn't Nukem or QIV. It is more and a lot more intensive. That is why I can run HL at 100 FPS and FS at 20 max with all the sliders running all the way right.

I went from a 128mb Ti4600 to a 6600 and I am telling you that while the 4600 ran FS2k2 just fine it bogged in FS9. And when I upgraded to the 6600 it was just like I bought a brand new computer, in speed and image quality - for many tech spec reasons - fill rate, bandwidth ect.

The $5000 computer isn't a myth at all. Go to Alienware or one of the other rare vendors that you can build a FOUR SLI 7800 512 MB (right there is thousands alone). You can build a $6 or $7 thousand dollar computer, if you like.

I am not sold on SLI technology. On the FSX deve blog one guy goes into allot of detail on why SLI may not make that much difference to FS9 or X, for that matter. "May not" is the key words. Marginal was more like what he was talking about. Modern SLI isn't anything like the old Voodoo 2 SLI, in any way. True old school SLI processes every other line on a single card. The new way is half screen on one card and half screen on the other. According to the blog, the old way may be better for FSX.

Just some thoughts.