I just got my dad an hp a1000 (2.93 GHZ processor, 512MB RAM, 80G Hard drive, IntelExtreme Graphics)
I currently own an hp pavilion notebook ze5200 (2400 MHZ processor, 512MB RAM 20G Hard drive, Radeon 345IGP Graphics)
And the performance in both is comparable. I thought I would see double the fps in the a1000, but I don't. Can some one please point out what the problem is.
Could I change the video card in a notebook, I know I can in a desktop.
Chuck
What honestly delivers good performance (fps)?
- martin[flytampa]
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5290
The biggest bottleneck in your dad's computer is definitely this "IntelExtreme Graphics", secondary item would be the amount of RAM.
Your HP's Radeon 345IGP Graphics is also an on-board adapter.
Generally speaking all "on-board" or " integrated" graphics adapters (meaning the chip is right on the motherboard) are not good for any kind of 3D gaming. While they are useful in Notebooks where there is limited room, the only reason to put them in a desktop computer is to save costs.
After looking up the HP.com site for this a1000y computer I'm not surprised anymore. A current state-of the-art graphics adapter from Nvidia or ATI costs more than this whole HP computer.
From my experience its safe to say that all these sub $500 computers aren't useful for gaming. For actual performance its very hard to get away with less than $800 excluding monitor.
Your HP's Radeon 345IGP Graphics is also an on-board adapter.
Generally speaking all "on-board" or " integrated" graphics adapters (meaning the chip is right on the motherboard) are not good for any kind of 3D gaming. While they are useful in Notebooks where there is limited room, the only reason to put them in a desktop computer is to save costs.
After looking up the HP.com site for this a1000y computer I'm not surprised anymore. A current state-of the-art graphics adapter from Nvidia or ATI costs more than this whole HP computer.
From my experience its safe to say that all these sub $500 computers aren't useful for gaming. For actual performance its very hard to get away with less than $800 excluding monitor.
- aarskringspier
- Posts: 181
Re: What honestly delivers good performance (fps)?
In all honesty to get decent performance out of FS you have to be willing to spend a little bit of cash on your hardware. An onboard graphics card just doesnt have the power to run FS, or any other 3D game, very well. Looking over that PC it seems you can atleast add a PCI Graphics Card to it, all though with its Power Supply I dont think you could go very big as well as cooling limitations. You cann add some ram, get a decent card and atleast make FS a lot more enjoyable.american101 wrote:I just got my dad an hp a1000 (2.93 GHZ processor, 512MB RAM, 80G Hard drive, IntelExtreme Graphics)
I currently own an hp pavilion notebook ze5200 (2400 MHZ processor, 512MB RAM 20G Hard drive, Radeon 345IGP Graphics)
And the performance in both is comparable. I thought I would see double the fps in the a1000, but I don't. Can some one please point out what the problem is.
Could I change the video card in a notebook, I know I can in a desktop.
Chuck
- american101
- Posts: 77
Thanks for the tips, but it really isn't worth it for just a month left of flight simulator. I thought the a1000 would be a quick fix for my fs hunger. I guess not. Is there anything I could due to my notebook instead of adding ram since I can't change the graphics card. All I need is a slight boost in fps to be constant over the 10 fps margin without destroying scenery qaulity. Any add-on or software boosters... it really sucks that moments I get great fps and at times they just linger between 7-9 fps... especially when i set my view to the horizon, and balance the land and sky.
Chuck
Chuck
- aarskringspier
- Posts: 181
What do you mean a month lefty of Flight Simulator? I was at E# and MS specifically stated the next version of FS wont be out until at least Summer 06, its not even in development yet.american101 wrote:Thanks for the tips, but it really isn't worth it for just a month left of flight simulator. I thought the a1000 would be a quick fix for my fs hunger. I guess not. Is there anything I could due to my notebook instead of adding ram since I can't change the graphics card. All I need is a slight boost in fps to be constant over the 10 fps margin without destroying scenery qaulity. Any add-on or software boosters... it really sucks that moments I get great fps and at times they just linger between 7-9 fps... especially when i set my view to the horizon, and balance the land and sky.
Chuck
- gunsontheroof
- Posts: 409
Integrated Intel graphics chips suck. My old Dell had one and it really limited the performance of FS9 (no water effects, limited frames, awful texture loading, etc.). Unfortunately, as I found out, switching from integrated to a video card is a real pain...I just got a new rig that I'm much happier with, it costs more than upgrading, but it's worth the money.
And yes, it will be at least a year before FS10, so you've got time...
And yes, it will be at least a year before FS10, so you've got time...
- american101
- Posts: 77
I experimented with both computers over the past few days... and my results continue to vary.
my notebook PC has been performing horrible with fps reaching 5 at and near ORD. But then I tried it this morning and I got fps ranging from 11-20 around the Chicago area. The same problem occurs with the new HP desktop.. where fps are so variable .. For instance I was getting 7=9 fps around the Midway terminal when yesterday I reached about 12. I keeping on changing my settings but I feel that does nothing. The difference between very high and low settings is a change of 1-2 fps if that(that doesn't make sense).
At one point my notebook performed great.. now I don't know what happened.. especially since I reinstalled everything on it and did a clean start.... you thing that would help. All I want is consistency right now.
Chuck
my notebook PC has been performing horrible with fps reaching 5 at and near ORD. But then I tried it this morning and I got fps ranging from 11-20 around the Chicago area. The same problem occurs with the new HP desktop.. where fps are so variable .. For instance I was getting 7=9 fps around the Midway terminal when yesterday I reached about 12. I keeping on changing my settings but I feel that does nothing. The difference between very high and low settings is a change of 1-2 fps if that(that doesn't make sense).
At one point my notebook performed great.. now I don't know what happened.. especially since I reinstalled everything on it and did a clean start.... you thing that would help. All I want is consistency right now.
Chuck
- martin[flytampa]
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5290
That sounds like a classic case of a total Windows re-install on a formated Harddrive. If you're one who likes to install software overtime either to just try it out or keep it (uninstall most often doesn't get rid of everything).At one point my notebook performed great
First thing I always do when I first sit on someone else's Computer is open taskmanager right after a reboot and look at the process tab. If there is more than 20 tasks I take a look at the Systray area, if thats bloated too I get to work. After asking the owners if they know what each icon is they usually don't know which means they don't need any of it.
I just noticed one interesting thing that I read on PAI forums.
Many simmers turn on AA on both FS Hardware settings and VideoCard Settings and this is totally wrong. I'd recommend to turn AA OFF in FS Settings and increase AA in Windows Video Apdapter Settings.
I have P4-3.2HT, 800FSB
1GB 3200 RAM
ATI 9800 PRO.
XP PRO
Video Settings in XP: AA=x6, AF=x8.
MSFS2004 FPS lock on 25. All the graphics options is ON and 100% (except building shadows, which is OFF).
FSUIPS visibility options: Clear/Cloudy/Overcasrt/Rain = 30/20/10/5, Maximum Visibility = 30NM.
Many people are flying with default visibility 100 or 60NM. In the real life in most US airports (especially now, in hot and humid July) visibility does not exceed 7-12NM. In normal seasons (like early Fall) 30NM is ok. So, make respective changes in your FSUIPS modules or ACV settings.
I'm using MRAI traffic only with FSP/AIA/FMAI/CDAI models.
In all the Fly Tampa Airports (except KTPA) I have strong average 18-21FPS with 100% traffic with highs at 24.9
In Simflyer KORD at 4PM local time I have average 13-17FPS with 194 planes on the ground and 75 on apporoach. While appoaching on 32L I have strong 17, and 12 during taxiing.
My worst experience is Simflyers KJFK. I have 10FPS on final aproach at 4R,, and maximum 13FPS in static position.
So, as AI-Die Hard Maniac and a moderate flyer (I dont like comprehensive planes like PMDG or LDS), generally I'm pretty happy with my PC specs and performance.
If you're AI fan (like myself), so be prepared for the moderate expenses related to powerful PC. As far as i remember, it's a second consequitive year, when Chuck is bashing developers for the low FPS, trying to reach acceptable FPS on laptop, which is not designed for comprehensive gaming like MSFS.
Many simmers turn on AA on both FS Hardware settings and VideoCard Settings and this is totally wrong. I'd recommend to turn AA OFF in FS Settings and increase AA in Windows Video Apdapter Settings.
I have P4-3.2HT, 800FSB
1GB 3200 RAM
ATI 9800 PRO.
XP PRO
Video Settings in XP: AA=x6, AF=x8.
MSFS2004 FPS lock on 25. All the graphics options is ON and 100% (except building shadows, which is OFF).
FSUIPS visibility options: Clear/Cloudy/Overcasrt/Rain = 30/20/10/5, Maximum Visibility = 30NM.
Many people are flying with default visibility 100 or 60NM. In the real life in most US airports (especially now, in hot and humid July) visibility does not exceed 7-12NM. In normal seasons (like early Fall) 30NM is ok. So, make respective changes in your FSUIPS modules or ACV settings.
I'm using MRAI traffic only with FSP/AIA/FMAI/CDAI models.
In all the Fly Tampa Airports (except KTPA) I have strong average 18-21FPS with 100% traffic with highs at 24.9
In Simflyer KORD at 4PM local time I have average 13-17FPS with 194 planes on the ground and 75 on apporoach. While appoaching on 32L I have strong 17, and 12 during taxiing.
My worst experience is Simflyers KJFK. I have 10FPS on final aproach at 4R,, and maximum 13FPS in static position.
So, as AI-Die Hard Maniac and a moderate flyer (I dont like comprehensive planes like PMDG or LDS), generally I'm pretty happy with my PC specs and performance.
If you're AI fan (like myself), so be prepared for the moderate expenses related to powerful PC. As far as i remember, it's a second consequitive year, when Chuck is bashing developers for the low FPS, trying to reach acceptable FPS on laptop, which is not designed for comprehensive gaming like MSFS.
Well I have 31 tasks, I wish I knew which I can "END TASK" without killing my machine. My SYS TRAY is relatively empty, only 4 items. I would love to increase my FPS also. Any hints?First thing I always do when I first sit on someone else's Computer is open taskmanager right after a reboot and look at the process tab. If there is more than 20 tasks I take a look at the Systray area, if thats bloated too I get to work. After asking the owners if they know what each icon is they usually don't know which means they don't need any of it.
- american101
- Posts: 77
Does anybody know if it is possible to upgrade a graphics card in a notebook. I know people said it is not that feasible and your better off just buying a new computer all together. My computer specs are fine and it has to be my Radeon IGP 345M graphics card that is hindering my performance. Regardless that its a notebook, some notebooks today are optimized for multimedia and gaming purposes. Does anyobdy think talking to a professional would be a good idea.. or would i recieve the same response.. your better off just buying a new one
Chuck
Chuck
- martin[flytampa]
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5290
As far as processes go, when I don't know something that is always running in my taskmanager, I just look it up here http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/index.htmlswapilot wrote:Well I have 31 tasks, I wish I knew which I can "END TASK" without killing my machine. My SYS TRAY is relatively empty, only 4 items. I would love to increase my FPS also. Any hints?
or type the name.exe into google.
While killing tasks in taskmanager can cause your computer to stop reacting or shutdown, upon reboot it will be in its normal state again so it is fairly safe.
The number of tasks you have can vary a lot depending on extra hardware you have. My 20 task quote is more or less for a well configured computer that doesn't have printers, digital cameras, scanners, webcams and lots of other stuff connected to it.
You can't upgrade the notebook graphics chip, because it is soldered in place and there is no slot. 345M is a fairly old chip, and if you must go notebook, you should look for one with a Mobile Radeon 9700 or a GeForce FX Go chip and 32MB or higher dedicated video RAM.american101 wrote:Does anybody know if it is possible to upgrade a graphics card in a notebook. I know people said it is not that feasible and your better off just buying a new computer all together. My computer specs are fine and it has to be my Radeon IGP 345M graphics card that is hindering my performance. Regardless that its a notebook, some notebooks today are optimized for multimedia and gaming purposes. Does anyobdy think talking to a professional would be a good idea.. or would i recieve the same response.. your better off just buying a new one
Chuck
Even 4 items in the system tray can be too many, depending on what they are. I have zero extra items in my system tray (just the clock and the volume meter). The fewer the better! But admittedly my computer is solely a FS gaming machine. If you use your computer for other tasks which require those programs in the tray, then you can shut them down before you play FS, and start them again when you are done.
As far as general hardware comments... the Graphics card is pretty important for fps, but I think one of the biggest unsung performance gainers in FS is the CPU. FS is extremely dependent on the CPU (moreso than even most modern games like HL2 or DoomIII, etc) and upgrading the CPU will also really boost up for performance. FS has to do tons of calculations for AI aircraft, flight dynamics, etc. 3rd is RAM and even though I have 1GB of RAM, I almost wish I had the money for 2GB! Maybe someday I will upgrade my CPU to a faster one and slip in more RAM at the same time. (Then again I'd also like to bump my GPU too
)
Just in some perspetive though... here is my system:
Athlon 64 3200+
GeForce 6600GT 128MB PCI-E
1GB (2x512 Dual Channel) RAM
And I get very satisfactory performance in FS. I have all my detail sliders up to the maximum... 100mi viisbility, 60mi cloud draw distance, 100% 3D clouds. I also have a lot of addons like Ultimate Traffic set at 98% (I use AIA/FSP models) and also ASV, FSGenesis mesh, etc etc.
My resolution is 1024x768x32, I run at 4x AA and 4(?)x AF. My framerate limiter is set at 35 and during cruise I am usually hitting 35, I'd say that 95% of the time I am above 15, and 75% of the time I am above 20.
Just to give you an idea. american101, your new HP pavillion is pretty good CPU wise, if you would like some pretty good FS Performance all you'd need to do is add another 512MB of RAM and also add in a new Graphics card, such as a nVidia 6600GT or ATi X800.
Ruahrc
As far as general hardware comments... the Graphics card is pretty important for fps, but I think one of the biggest unsung performance gainers in FS is the CPU. FS is extremely dependent on the CPU (moreso than even most modern games like HL2 or DoomIII, etc) and upgrading the CPU will also really boost up for performance. FS has to do tons of calculations for AI aircraft, flight dynamics, etc. 3rd is RAM and even though I have 1GB of RAM, I almost wish I had the money for 2GB! Maybe someday I will upgrade my CPU to a faster one and slip in more RAM at the same time. (Then again I'd also like to bump my GPU too
)Just in some perspetive though... here is my system:
Athlon 64 3200+
GeForce 6600GT 128MB PCI-E
1GB (2x512 Dual Channel) RAM
And I get very satisfactory performance in FS. I have all my detail sliders up to the maximum... 100mi viisbility, 60mi cloud draw distance, 100% 3D clouds. I also have a lot of addons like Ultimate Traffic set at 98% (I use AIA/FSP models) and also ASV, FSGenesis mesh, etc etc.
My resolution is 1024x768x32, I run at 4x AA and 4(?)x AF. My framerate limiter is set at 35 and during cruise I am usually hitting 35, I'd say that 95% of the time I am above 15, and 75% of the time I am above 20.
Just to give you an idea. american101, your new HP pavillion is pretty good CPU wise, if you would like some pretty good FS Performance all you'd need to do is add another 512MB of RAM and also add in a new Graphics card, such as a nVidia 6600GT or ATi X800.
Ruahrc