Low FPS in FS2004

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Benncpp15
Posts: 162

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Benncpp15 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:16 pm

vl1 wrote:
Benncpp15 wrote:
By the way i am using windows 8 already, while u i am afraid are using windows 95
I was only three years old when windows 95 came out. That would have been about the same period in time you bought your PC right? You sure that antique piece of shit can even handle Windows8? Maybe that's your problem? [edited language]
Last edited by Benncpp15 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vl1
Posts: 27

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by vl1 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:29 pm

Benncpp15 wrote:
vl1 wrote:
Benncpp15 wrote:
By the way i am using windows 8 already, while u i am afraid are using windows 95
I was only three years old when windows 95 came out. That would have been about the same period in time you bought your PC right? You sure that antique your piece of shit can even handle Windows8? Maybe that's your problem? [edited language]
[edited language]
marten, or whoever is moderating this forum, please take measures.
that's too much names calling for this place
rootik1
Posts: 1

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by rootik1 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:33 pm

Benncpp15 wrote:
vl1 wrote:
Benncpp15 wrote:
[edited language]
he is right!
you are way out of line!
clocki
Posts: 47

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by clocki » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:59 pm

eparot wrote: - remove all the Dubaï City bgls : +12 fps
I removed all .bgl which had city in the name (157 files with around 41MB). Now I'm having good and solid frames on a short test (getting tired in the night a bit ;) )

But as you said the landscape looks like sh*** .

Is there maybe a change to find the optimum? I had no problems with the area around like it was in the old version. I'm caring in that case more about the airport.

Maybe you (FlyTampa) can prepare/explain how to reach that? Or which files can be used or which means what. So that we may get some houses and the main buildings (Burj) to make it okay.
Would be okay for me.

@FlyTampa
complete different question:
is there a change to get Static Aircrafts? The airport looks very empty when flying on IVAO :D Not much, only some like on the East area or some GA airplnaes and some at the terminal.

Thanks
martin[flytampa]
Site Admin
Posts: 5195

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by martin[flytampa] » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:14 am

eparot wrote: - Hong Kong (jul. 2008) : 11.4 MB,
- Boston v3.2 (nov. 2009) : 15.1 MB,
- Vienna v2 (apr. 2010) : 10.5 MB,
- Buffalo (sep. 2010) : 16.2 MB,
- Tampa Rebooted v2 (dec. 2010) : 34.2 MB,
- Athens (aug. 2011) : 31.8 MB,
- Dubaï Rebooted v2 (nov. 2012) : 90.6 MB (40.2 MB for just the airport).

So the culprit is without a doubt the level of detail...
But it has a huge price. 'Cause when you're overflying Dubaï, I don't really see the difference in quality with Hong Kong. You need to be much closer than overflying the city or airport to see the difference. I also notice that jetways generate a big load, specially for Terminal 2 (does the tower is included with T2 bgls).

To be honest, do we really need all this level of detail ?
Your assessment about the BGL size correlating to poly-count is correct.

In relation to Hong Kong, the area covered with 3D in Dubai is at least 3-4 times that of HongKong. So as you say, the quality is similar, but the amount is much bigger. Dubai also needed lots of individual small box buildings while HongKong has a lower poly count because of tricks I was able to apply that could not be done at Dubai because of the structure of the city (lots of spread out small buildings rather then dense highrises).

There is little I can do at this point other then to cut down drawing-distances and attempt to squeeze out 5-10 fps best case.

Having thought about it for some days now, the future for FS9 ports is going to look grim no matter what. I say this because I am certain that 2 year from now our Addons will have higher, not lower poly counts. Your own summary above shows the trend. We are also dying to up the resolution of texture sheets to 2048 or 4096 and FS9 has been the reason we don't.

Personally I have no problem porting FS9 versions as it doesn't cause me much extra work, but the prospect of future, more detailed airports not performing on dual and quad cores (or perhaps FS9 in general since it doesn't scale well) look bleak.

Releasing slimmer FS9 versions with half the details missing isn't a wise alternative in my mind and will just result in users confused or worse, enraged when they don't get what they saw in the screenshots, videos etc.
Swag
Posts: 15

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Swag » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:28 am

That's a real shame since as you said yourself, performance of FSX is awful with full AI and likely will remain so since that part of the code doesn't scale at all with the number of cores. Therefore for me it's not really an alternative to FS9 for the PMDG/Level-D OMDB to EGLL kind of flight simulation.

Also, I believe our graphics cards are about similar when it comes to polygon drawing performance, so why is the Dubai scenery so much slower on my machine when the Hong Kong scenery is not.
martin[flytampa]
Site Admin
Posts: 5195

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by martin[flytampa] » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:51 am

Swag wrote:That's a real shame since as you said yourself, performance of FSX is awful with full AI and likely will remain so since that part of the code doesn't scale at all with the number of cores. Therefore for me it's not really an alternative to FS9 for the PMDG/Level-D OMDB to EGLL kind of flight simulation.
FSX AI performance is aweful and cuts fps in half compared to no-AI.... but even with that, I do get between 30-40 fps at FSX Dubai:
http://flytampa.org/forum/download/file ... &mode=view

So the FSX fps is higher then what I get in FS9 on the same system. No AI comparison shows it clearly:
http://flytampa.org/forum/download/file ... &mode=view
http://flytampa.org/forum/download/file ... &mode=view

There is no way our future sceneries will become "simpler" again, with less polygons and textures. Thats just not the way 3D tech/design goes. So I'm looking at the summary eparot posted earlier, showing the increase in "detail/size" and extrapolating that to the future. FS9 won't cope at some point, perhaps that point is now / Dubai unfortunately.

It is still going be okay to port the next airports like CYUL that have limited surroundings, I'm just saying in the long run, poly counts may get too high for FS9.
Swag wrote:Also, I believe our graphics cards are about similar when it comes to polygon drawing performance, so why is the Dubai scenery so much slower on my machine when the Hong Kong scenery is not.
It could just be raw poly count. eparot 's summary shows 11MB BGLs for HK, 90MB BGLs for Dubai. They are bigger because they just contain more 3D data.
Mooze
Posts: 27

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Mooze » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:20 am

Just want to say that my computer has a very modest perf, "Core 2 Duao 2.4Gh (Win 7 x64), 6Go RAM, GTX 260"
it runs very acceptable, you may try to remove the file for the sandy athmosphere, I dont know this might help to gain some more FPS, didnt do as am not really suffering from FPS hit also I would try to see if there will be any significant change.
Global Express
Posts: 22

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Global Express » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:24 am

Just to report, I also have very bad frames when looking at the main terminal buildings. 2008 system, Dell XPS630i.

For comparison, I have compared it to Kai Tak (20-40FPS).

Image

Image

Image

Image

Dubai (10-25FPS):

Image

Terminal in view, 15FPS drop. click here for full pic:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/ ... 48/5-2.jpg
Image

Image

Image

Incredible job with Dubai, without doubt the best scenery ever made, IMO! I just need a new system before I can use it. :-(
ashy
Posts: 7

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by ashy » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:45 am

I have a similar problem with Dubai however it is just about playable on my Intel Quad Q6600 @ 2.6Ghz, 1GB Nvidia Gainward 460gtx glh and 4GB RAM on W7-64. It's a bit odd really because most airports i get 40fps+ however with airports that have been ported from FSX to FS9 like this and also FSDT LAX i get a big noticeable drop around the terminal with no AI. I also clean up all my textures using the DXTFixer program on Avsim. No doubt to me it seems to be my slow CPU that is causing problems possibly as FS9 doesn't use additional cores.
ashy
Posts: 7

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by ashy » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:20 am

Just to show you guys further, this is my current situation with the terminals under a fresh Dubai install, i verified no previous installations by flying about before installation with only default scenery. Weather was set to clear skies, 20 mile vis, no AI.

Two terminal views.
Image
Image

And FPS during a view of the city.
Image

Either way guys its a great scenery and i'm not doubting my system is probably not quite good enough for real complex scenery however just showing what i think others are experiencing in terms of the terminal.

Cheers.
tupolev154
Posts: 61

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by tupolev154 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:57 am

What a way the developers are behaving... not going to fix this? Because FS9 is old? I mean... come on... FS9 users are also people.

The scenery is excellent, especially the city. But the terminal and gates are taking up all FPS while the city (which appears to be more complex than the terminal) has no problems with FPS... How come a huge city like Dubai has high FPS while a terminal buildings that doesn't look to have more detail than other sceneries, have such a low FPS?

The terminal itself is like a tube, like somebody here explained, so most likely it's the gates that take up the FPS for some reason, but I've seen highly detailed terminals which does not eat FPS so probably it's something more bug like... What happens if you remove the gates?

Another "solution" would be able to delete the new "rebooted" terminals, and replace them with the terminals from the legacy version, this might help? I know they aren't as detailed as the new ones but I kind of liked how you could see inside them, and for extra FPS... Why not?

Apart from the terminal, or whatever building is causing this FPS loss... it's the best scenery so far.
clocki
Posts: 47

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by clocki » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:11 am

What I noticed is that it seem the Concourse 1 (2) is taking more frames then the Concourse 3.

I also don't understand why scenery from German Airports are not affected from these problem. With EDDV,EDDP,EDDH,... 2012 I'm not having such a big lost of frames :(

Hope there will be a solution soon, with deleting the City of Dubai and PMDG/Ifly I'm getting around 22-26fps but feels like 30fps.
Benncpp15
Posts: 162

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Benncpp15 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:16 am

There's nothing wrong with Dubai. I completed a well nice 6 hour flight into omdb last night & it was smooth.

Duh, It's your welfare computers causing the problems. You need to stop whining because i doubt Flytampa will develop for Fs9 again. Just like PMDG.

Look at my shots. My PC... i5-2500k, GTX 660 2048MB and 8 GB of Memory.
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