Low FPS in FS2004

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martin[flytampa]
Site Admin
Posts: 5194

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by martin[flytampa] » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:42 pm

vl1 wrote:i and for the record martin, on your screenshots YOU DO NOT USE AI!!!
See the difference between your screen and that of wingZ! It''s a huge difference for the sim and cpu.
I'm aware of the math regarding my bare fs9 test/shots without other Addons.

57
-20 (Adding AI)
-10 (complex user AC)
-5 (nice weather)
------
20'ish fps I would end up with a real FS9 setup.

I will run the viewing angle tests swag pointed out next.
clocki
Posts: 47

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by clocki » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:56 pm

Hey all,

I have exactly the same issue like the other ones. At the airport itself I have with the std. Cessna 172 in all views around 20-22fps. Also at night. Not using any AI due flying online.
The problem is that it's sometimes starts a bit of lacking although I'm having 20fps. With the PMDG B744 I'm getting around 15-20fps (feeling like 10). DA Fokker is getting around 23 up to 26fps but feeling much better.

When flying orbits around the Burj al Khalifa/Burj al Arab I have my full locked frames. Nothing lacking etc.

No double entries in the scenery.cfg and Dubai is on top. I deleted the FlyTampa Dubai folder from /AddonScenery first and also used CCleaner. Also reinstalled Dubai.

There is definitely a problem with the terminal. When standing on rwy 30L and looking direction Oman, I'm getting again full frames.

My System:
Windows 7 x64
AMD FX-4100 Quad Core 3,60Ghz
RAM 8GB
Nvidia Geforce GTX 550 ti (EVGA)

That's my scenery.cfg entry:
[Area.692]
Title=FlyTampa-Dubai
Local=Addon Scenery\FlyTampa-Dubai\
Active=TRUE
Required=FALSE
Layer=152
Remote=

Please check this! The scenery is a beauty and I'd like to fly there. Planned flights for the week before starting work again, but with only 15-20fps I can't fly here :(
martin[flytampa]
Site Admin
Posts: 5194

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by martin[flytampa] » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:33 pm

Having analyzed it in FS9 again I can do the following but it will have some visual consequences.

Reduce the Jetway's visibility further (as in the ZIP update).

Reduce the visibility of city trees a lot.

Reduce the visibility of city buildings. This will be the part that will look odd. Currently on my system, The marina is already "popped out" of view when looking from the airport. By reducing the visibility there is a good chance that large highrises downtown will also not be showing when looking from the airport. This is what I mean by "odd". Flying over the city won't look as nice because large chunks of city areas will pop in and out of view on a rather close proximity range.

The terminal itself is just a high poly "tube" and for some reason FSX can handle it without a glitch, while FS9 has always been limited when it comes to poly-count.

See comparison of how FSX handles the terminal here:
download/file.php?id=3189&mode=view
download/file.php?id=3188&mode=view

LOD wouldn't help the terminal itself because it doesn't solve the problem of low fps when close to the terminal. LOD around the city in general wouldn't help because LOD is meant for reducing complex 3D models. The city buildings are 99% "boxes", which is the lowest form of 3D geometry. There is no simpler geometry they could be reduced to. Only thing left is to pop stuff out of view.
vl1
Posts: 27

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by vl1 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:56 pm

ok, i see you get what we mean!
thanx!
but is there anything else that can be done with terminals and jetways?
maybe reduce the eye-candy a bit? or it will require a complete remake?
martin[flytampa]
Site Admin
Posts: 5194

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by martin[flytampa] » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:14 pm

vl1 wrote:ok, i see you get what we mean!
thanx!
but is there anything else that can be done with terminals and jetways?
maybe reduce the eye-candy a bit? or it will require a complete remake?
I don't see anything that could be done to the terminals other then removing/popping the jetways out of view sooner. The apron clutter, lamps, taxisigns and other small detail already pop out of view rather quickly. You can see this if you move away from the terminal and keep an eye on a car or lamp next to it. The terminal "tube" itself we can't do anything about, it must remain visible from a large distance.

Overall, not just regarding Dubai, the problem I see now and for future releases is that as we increase details and polygon counts in a way that FSX can handle, FS9 performance will be getting worse and worse because it does not scale well when adding polygons. I have been noticing this since Hong Kong actually, that performance in the same scenery in FS9/X was about the same (or slower in FSX) at the time of release. But now, 4 years later with new CPU and GFX card, FS9-HK did not gain much from upgrading while FSX-HK performs at higher fps then it originally did and even surpasses the current FS9-HK fps. The main problem I still have with FSX is the AI engine, which is just a performance killer at large hub airports.
Swag
Posts: 15

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Swag » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:22 pm

Thanks Martin, but I don't think the terminal is the issue. Sure, it costs an FPS or two but I don't think it is what causes this scenery to be slow. But what the reason is - I don't know.

Spot the difference between the next two shots, except for the minimally different angle (both HDG 087) and the 34.3 FPS vs 49.1 FPS. This performance difference is repeatable and not a fluke. Crazy.
Attachments
Slow2.jpg
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Fast2.jpg
Fast2.jpg (352.02 KiB) Viewed 5523 times
martin[flytampa]
Site Admin
Posts: 5194

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by martin[flytampa] » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:26 pm

Swag wrote:Thanks Martin, but I don't think the terminal is the issue. Sure, it costs an FPS or two but I don't think it is what causes this scenery to be slow. But what the reason is - I don't know.

Spot the difference between the next two shots, except for the minimally different angle (both HDG 087) and the 34.3 FPS vs 49.1 FPS. This performance difference is repeatable and not a fluke. Crazy.
You mean that the performance changes based on the angle right? Not that the fps jumps around even if you stay still.
Benncpp15
Posts: 162

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Benncpp15 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:34 pm

Looking at the systems these gentlemen are running, I'd say the problem is with obsolete hardware.
This scenery is beautifully detailed, don't expect the developer to work miracles for you because your stuck using grandma's old computer.
Swag
Posts: 15

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Swag » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:35 pm

Yes, in this particular spot I get an almost 50% increase in FPS by changing the angle by less than one degree. I've never seen anything like this ever before in FS9.
vl1
Posts: 27

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by vl1 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:38 pm

Benncpp15 wrote:Looking at the systems these gentlemen are running, I'd say the problem is with obsolete hardware.
This scenery is beautifully detailed, don't expect the developer to work miracles for you because your stuck using grandma's old computer.
I am really happy that you are mr fancy fancy, but its business as far as i see it.
and if marten wants to sell more, he WILL have to work miracles.
because as i said in previous posts, there is more than half of fs9 users that use duo or quad core cpus and that is sales quantity. as simple as that.

and i hope your internet explorer starts faster on your NON-grandmothers hardware. that REALLY makes a difference!!!
Swag
Posts: 15

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Swag » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:48 pm

Benncpp15 wrote:Looking at the systems these gentlemen are running, I'd say the problem is with obsolete hardware.
This scenery is beautifully detailed, don't expect the developer to work miracles for you because your stuck using grandma's old computer.
Martin's NV460 is about 20% faster than my 6850 according to PassMark. His i7 is likely 30% faster than my E8600 in a single core app like FS9 is, as that's the performance difference that we get in that Hong Kong shot - 44 FPS for me vs. 57 FPS for him. I'm sure you will agree that that difference is not exactly earth shattering.

It certainly doesn't explain why Dubai is really fast on his box and quite slow on mine.
Benncpp15
Posts: 162

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by Benncpp15 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:19 pm

I've got an i5-2500k, GTX 660 2048MB and 8 GB of Memory.
I run FS9 & FSX. FS9 runs great with OMDB, I get a solid 40-60 FPS around the terminal & no stutters.
I should add, I have xplane10 & some of the cities in XP10 run slower than Dubai & obviously aren't as good.

You did a great job Martin.

Maybe you (Swag) just have low RAM, low VRAM, bad settings, too much AI?
Your system isn't too bad but I think you are getting a reasonably amount of performance for that system.

The other guys here just have steam powered old crap computers. Its that simple. Move on. Upgrade, stop moaning & enjoy flying.

I'm moving up to FSX as a primary platform soon. Mainly because of the PMDG NGX & all the other great addons I can't have in FS9.

@vl1 FS9 is dead dude. We are lucky Martin and George bothered to make another FS9 scenery. especially with guys like you moaning like little girls, expecting special treatment for your Win XP budget PCs.

By the way - No one uses Internet Explorer anymore. You really are using your grandma's PC. LOL. Get Chrome or Firefox.
eparot
Posts: 35

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by eparot » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:45 pm

martin[flytampa] wrote:Out of curiosity, I installed and loaded our FS9 HongKong VHHX for comparison.

It runs almost exactly the same as OMDB here (default FS9.1, no AI or other Addons installed).

If anyone getting low fps at FS9 Dubai could compare it to our Hong Kong that would be helpful.

If the performance is indeed similar (like it is for me) I don't see whats the problem. A 2012 Dubai running similar to a 2008 release and in 2008 there were little or no such complaints? Perhaps the hardware degraded since 2008?
Hi Martin,

First, I must admit that I have a very old config (Athlon 64 4000+, 2GB, GTX9800+ w/512MB), but it's working very well with all your previous latest sceneries (Hong Kong, Boston, Vienna, Buffalo and Athens) and generaly have 25-30 fps (locked to 30) when I'm in the cockpit of PMDG/Leveld-D aircraft with weather and no AI (I'm flying online on IVAO only).
As some other FS9 users, I have poor results when I'm close to the terminals (15-17 fps with default Cessna, no AI, no weather). So I tried several things :

- convert DXT3 textures that have a flat alpha channel to DXT1 - no results except that the time to load the textures decreases,
- remove all the veg (airport + Dubaï City) : + 3fps
- remove all the Dubaï City bgls : +12 fps

So the airport is now flyable with my config and big commercial jet and weather. But the lanscape is poor... :-(

I don't have this problem with Hong Kong that runs pretty well with all the city. So, I decided to check the size of the scenery folders of all your latest sceneries :

- Hong Kong (jul. 2008) : 11.4 MB,
- Boston v3.2 (nov. 2009) : 15.1 MB,
- Vienna v2 (apr. 2010) : 10.5 MB,
- Buffalo (sep. 2010) : 16.2 MB,
- Tampa Rebooted v2 (dec. 2010) : 34.2 MB,
- Athens (aug. 2011) : 31.8 MB,
- Dubaï Rebooted v2 (nov. 2012) : 90.6 MB (40.2 MB for just the airport).

So the culprit is without a doubt the level of detail...
But it has a huge price. 'Cause when you're overflying Dubaï, I don't really see the difference in quality with Hong Kong. You need to be much closer than overflying the city or airport to see the difference. I also notice that jetways generate a big load, specially for Terminal 2 (does the tower is included with T2 bgls).

To be honest, do we really need all this level of detail ?

So I'll wait for an update to correct the small problems like ILS and will probably stay with Dubaï City deactivated and live with that. In fact, I bought your scenery for the airport first even if I dreamt of the City.

Thank's for all this great work and best regards,
vl1
Posts: 27

Re: Low FPS in FS2004

Post by vl1 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:04 pm

Benncpp15 wrote:
By the way - No one uses Internet Explorer anymore. You really are using your grandma's PC. LOL. Get Chrome or Firefox.
that was a joke and sarcasm you dumbass. as well as about IE. god, people become so slow with this world.
no more words for u
i am using windows 8 already, while u i am afraid are using windows 95
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